1. It's unconstitutional. 2. The current bill reforms nothing. 3. Per usual, the working/middle class will end up paying for this.

As an aside, the "war on terror" has been mis-handled from day one, and continues to be mishandled..

Ok.  Now, a different voice.

There is nothing wrong with this healthcare bill...if you are from Nebraska and just had your state bribed for its vote...other than that, just about everything. This is a bad bill we will regret for destroying our economy and ruining health care. The federal government is the last place I would go to improve cost-effectiveness and efficiency. As far as Afganistan, that was perhaps the one place we needed to go into. We have to stabilize it.

This one, an informed OPEN minded Conservative.  One of the few I DO normally enjoy engaging.

Now back to my ditto-head friend.  And this one is... disturbing...

Kristen, even my most liberal friends and family are against this bill, as it exists! Sure, intellectually they still believe in universal care, but they recognize how ridiculous this bill is. This is merely a demonstration of arrogance and tyrannical abuse of power. Rather than discuss real reform, in bipartisan committees, the Dems are flexing their muscles while they are still able. They've given up on representative democracy..

Right... my response:

But the Dems AREN'T flexing their muscles... True, as it exists it's terrible and not really a "reform" at all. The Democrats drafted a bill on their own. Sure... but the Republican draft didn't come until nearly a month later. This isn't arrogance, this isn't partisanship-- this is a bill that 1 side ran with... and the other has watered down ... See Moreto... nothing.

It will still cover a vast majority of Americans who need it-- being from MA, are you as die hard against MassHealth?? Has it ruined Massachusetts??

I'll shut up now... but I think saying "tyrannical abuse of power" and "unconstitutional" is a bit much.

Now Mr. Ditto Head--

Really? The Democratic leadership had to BUY about 6 votes to ensure a veto proof bill in the Senate. They watered their own bill down to buy those votes. The GOP wasn't even invited to negotiate. These assholes are ramrodding this bill through at the eleventh hour, because they won't get anything in 2010, and they know it. That sounds like tyranny to me. As for the Constitutionality? States are chomping at the bit to take this thing to court! And, yes, it IS unconstitutional!

PS. Yeah. MassHealth sucks, and it IS hurting the economy of the Commonwealth. Our hospitals are being bankrupted by MassHealth. Let me know how it works for you when Harrington closes..

Harrington is a local hospital.  And I opted not to address the bought votes... because he DOES have something there...  But honestly...

Here's me:

Grassley was a major contributor to this thing from the get-go.. And tyranny would be one thought process prevailing all others... which is not the case. Republicans have their tenets--all of which they adhere to on a fairly consistent basis (see Purity Pledge), the Democrats are an entirely different animal... within the ranks you have on one end the liberals who affiliate themselves with the Dems, and on the entirely opposite end you have the blue dogs...

You have people vehemently opposed to abortion, and you have people die hard for a woman's right to choose. People 100% for AND against the public option... We aren't talking black and white... this doesn't have the makings of a "tyranny." What have they exactly DONE?? They've taken one draft, and diluted it down to produce a PRETTY FREAKIN BIPARTISAN BILL. It may not have the physical fingerprints of many Republicans, but the ideas that helped shape it are pretty reminiscent.

But all in all--you're right. It's terrible. Everyone is disappointed and angry. It just bothers me to hear hyperbolic phrases about the entire mess. It was rushed, it wasn't gone about the way it maybe should have been. In the end, nothing too much is changing. And as for MassHealth bankrupting the state of Massachusetts, I've heard the rumors but no one has supplied me with the evidence yet. So I will take that with a grain of salt...although as always, open to reading the info. ...

I will just say one thing-- Harrington is GROWING. They've begun MEGA renovations within the hospital for both cosmetic and functionality purposes... and they're opening Harrington Health Care in Charlton January 2010--the MRI is up and running now. I'm not saying it's because of MassHealth... I'm sure Deval's measures to mandatory insure every member of Massachusetts has probably HELPED them... but I'm not familiar enough with the background to say either way. I don't logically see, however, how a public option would damage a health care FACILITY... maybe increase the deficit-- and be kinda shitty to the taxpayers.. but really?

I was hoping he'd reply.  But, as Facebook threads are quick and fleeting, the 3 day passage of this one proved to be too long to keep a good back & forth going.  

It's just interesting to hear what the hell is going through their minds...  In a sick and perverted type way.  

And I'm not talking the logical Conservative.  I'm not speaking of the type to engage a conversation with facts and actual THOUGHT.  I'm talking these Beck loving fools.  Who use terms such as "tyrannical abuse of power."  

I love that one.  HONESTLY.  Tyrannical abuse of power??  Because the dems have REALLY thrown out all of the Republican values and tenets of this fucking thing from the beginning right??  Used their super majority to pass the bill in it's entirety... right??  That's why the people in this country are currently fully insured, at all income levels... right??  And why the truly sick, and truly in need do not have reason to worry anymore because they are guaranteed insurance... right??  

OH WAIT.  That's not how it's FUCKING working AT ALL.