Left Take:: Under God

Plesae give us more FOOTBALLDUDE

by: The ParduThu Mar 11, 2010 at 18:24:47 PM CST

I like your throwing that out here. I am going to contemplate that one a bit.

Damn, interesting thought?

Now, the question you pose will certainly garner good dialog here in the LEFTAKE. I wonder what angle the dialog will take.

BE back on this one, for certain.

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To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War

It's not simply the phrase.

by: spiral115Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 21:25:39 PM CST

And it is not harmless. Any foot hold religion can get to influence the government, they do. They were able to get tax exempt status when every other business and citizen has to pay taxes unless they are a non-profit. Religions are anything but. They rake in millions. the "charity" work they do is not charitable. Most of the money raised for church charities goes to administrative costs, building more houses of indoctrination, and handing out more Bibles. After all this is done, they spend some for food, clothing, and shelter.

So the phrase is a symbol of the insidious nature of faith. It would be like saying, "One Nation, Under Corporate Rule" or "In Big Business We Trust". It is a ridiculous and dangerous statement and should have no place in our government.

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Mental slavery is mental death, and every man who has given up his intellectual freedom is the living coffin of his dead soul. ~Robert Green Ingersoll

It's not simply the phrase.

by: spiral115Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 21:25:40 PM CST

And it is not harmless. Any foot hold religion can get to influence the government, they do. They were able to get tax exempt status when every other business and citizen has to pay taxes unless they are a non-profit. Religions are anything but. They rake in millions. the "charity" work they do is not charitable. Most of the money raised for church charities goes to administrative costs, building more houses of indoctrination, and handing out more Bibles. After all this is done, they spend some for food, clothing, and shelter.

So the phrase is a symbol of the insidious nature of faith. It would be like saying, "One Nation, Under Corporate Rule" or "In Big Business We Trust". It is a ridiculous and dangerous statement and should have no place in our government.

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Mental slavery is mental death, and every man who has given up his intellectual freedom is the living coffin of his dead soul. ~Robert Green Ingersoll

So good

by: SuzeB1964Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 21:28:53 PM CST

I had to 11 it twice. ;-)

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No philosophy, no religion, has ever brought so glad a message to the world as this good news of Atheism. - Annie Besant

[ Parent ]

Thanks Suze

by: spiral115Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 21:47:12 PM CST

I also posted this comment on the Yahoo page that Faultguy references below

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Mental slavery is mental death, and every man who has given up his intellectual freedom is the living coffin of his dead soul. ~Robert Green Ingersoll

[ Parent ]

Yeah

by: The ParduThu Mar 11, 2010 at 23:05:07 PM CST

I re-read it. As usual....the 'top' 11

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To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War

[ Parent ]

I think I get it

by: BabylonDonFri Mar 12, 2010 at 07:11:34 AM CST

And I agree. It's a bizarre preactice. I went searching for the SCOTUS opinion on the pledge, and found some other stories that (along with RFP's diary) have inspired me to rant.

Thanks RFP!

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I get what you're saying.

by: realfootballdudeFri Mar 12, 2010 at 19:09:18 PM CST

But I disagree :)

I think that is what you choose to take from it. It's not an advertisement for anything. People interpret it different ways, or choose not to interpret it at all. And listen, I hate organized religion; I think it's a travesty. But the "under God" does not refer to a specific God. Who says it is the God of the Bible? The phrase isn't promoting a faith, it isn't expounding ideologies; it's just a phrase that we have carried as a tradition. It's completely optional to say. I could mean anything. To me, it's harmless. I just don't understand why other people can't see it that way too.

And there's still the fact that we pledge ourselves to a flag....

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And what I am saying

by: spiral115Sun Mar 14, 2010 at 14:11:00 PM CDT

is that the phrase leaves the door open for ANY religion to try and get a foothold on influencing the government. And I do not discriminate when it comes to religion. I think they are ALL bad and based on delusion.

Does "under god" mean he likes it on top?

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Mental slavery is mental death, and every man who has given up his intellectual freedom is the living coffin of his dead soul. ~Robert Green Ingersoll

[ Parent ]

It's to the flag and the republic for which it stands

by: LysiaSun Mar 14, 2010 at 14:25:20 PM CDT

You're pledging your allegiance to both the flag and the republic, I guess I don't have a problem with that.

I do think the "under G-d" should go. I don't like to force my religion on anyone and I feel that this forces religion in some sense or another on people who don't believe in G-d.

Religion belongs in the home and the place of worship. Personal religious items should not be banned, but forced public group religious activities should not take place.

If one chooses to enter someone else's house of worship, that's a personal choice and then you show respect, but not something that should be forced upon you in public.

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If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

And when I am only for myself, what am 'I'?

And if not now, when?

----Hillel the Elder

You're not being forced, though...

by: realfootballdudeMon Mar 15, 2010 at 18:49:58 PM CDT

No one has to say the Pledge. It's completely optional. Should Churches not be allowed to advertise? Because that's "forced upon you in public" a lot more than this is.

It's just a tradition. Should we take "endowed by their creator" out of the Declaration of Independence, too? It just seems so pointless to me to fight this battle when there are other, much more important ones to be fought.

I'd rather spend my time advocating for GLBT rights and shooting down the pro-life movement than arguing this.

So my opinion: keep it in.

It'd be so much less of a headache.

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[ Parent ]

but

by: nethThu Mar 18, 2010 at 15:24:03 PM CDT

I have been forced, in high school I was given several detentions for not saying the pledge. Wouldn't you say that is being forced?
Since you say it is harmless through the use of a specific word would you mind we changed it? How about to Allah? Buddha? Krishna? Odin? Jupiter? Zeus? what about the great god of voodoo? The deity is included in the pledge as a form of oppression by the Judea-christian masters.

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[ Parent ]

Thats right

by: atunionbobWed Mar 17, 2010 at 12:02:55 PM CDT

Yes it is a pledge to a flag. It was not until the Eisenhower administration that the Under God was put into the pledge. when I was in Grade school we didn't have those words in it. I feel we should go back to those times and remove those words unless we want to pledge to the Buddhist or Allah, or Humbugged or who ever some one feels like we should pledge to.

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Genius is not necessarily the mark of Intelligence but rather that of Common Sense!

LefTake

Under God

by: realfootballdude

March 11, 2010 6:42 PM

Plesae give us more FOOTBALLDUDE

It's not simply the phrase.

It's not simply the phrase.

So good

Thanks Suze

Yeah

I think I get it

I get what you're saying.

And what I am saying

It's to the flag and the republic for which it stands

You're not being forced, though...

but

Thats right